ok so I msged in the forums at Next Hardware http://www.nexthardware.com/news3.php?artID=588&numpag=1
They are supposed to have the only real version of the card, they have specs, some benchmarks done on teh card. They said the project is suspended, they need someone to optimize the drivers. Well if you are up to the task you might want to get ahold of one of admins and see from there. Seems like they are looking for someone to do this.

wonder if amigamerlin is involved with this.

Rumours had it that Amiga DID try to optimize drivers for rampage.
But I heard some weeks ago that the rampage prototype was sold.
Is that true ?

hmm, now thats news to me.
however, I wonder who coulda afford that rampage.

last time I got offered.
$8,000 was the price tag LOL
as absurd as it sounds, surely every collector would want it

I don't see the point of making/optimizing such drivers, because there's only one working card around.

i guess,
to have one working card to see how it performs still thrills many,

as almost no one has probably seen its true capabilities
especially .. like u said, only one working card,
and they need a decent driver for it.

well the only good look'n API it can do is OpenGL in Quake3 Arena, and Direct3D in 3D mark 2000 and directdraw in software mode with Unreal Tournament 1999, it was even slower that an 5500 AGP !

But no Glide, Glide wasn't inplented yet.

wrote on 27.07.05 at 11:43:17:

I don't see the point of making/optimizing such drivers, because there's only one working card around.

You sure about that?

wrote on 27.07.05 at 17:12:26:

Glide not implemented for Rampage?  ::) How old are you expecting the card to be?  :P

That would be VSA-100's succesor (quite new indeed)

afaik the development of this stuff stopped without having glide implemented yet

wrote on 27.07.05 at 18:54:27:

That would be VSA-100's succesor (quite new indeed)

That would be Daytona (VSA-101, Napalm2)

Glide works fine with Daytona, Rampage is very different then anything 3dfx did before so it would be no surprise that glide support was not worked on right away.

so, I guess the question to ask is,
who is up to the task for driver development =)

;)

gary, maybe you can get one for a far more discounted price based on your contacts ?  ;D

Quote:

gary, maybe you can get one for a far more discounted price based on your contacts ?

;D ;D ;D ;D

whaa haahahaha http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/worshippy.gifwe'll keep that one in Oscar ;) welll there maybe answers to that ya know.

whoever it maybe

hehe, meantime obi-wan,
i'm still eagerly awaiting your Rev 3400 arrival

well The Rampage would have saved 3dfx if it were launched on time.

@ Edmund:

I will send you a PM about that subject. There is still Hope within the Force ofcourse.

wrote on 28.07.05 at 16:09:05:

well The Rampage would have saved 3dfx if it were launched on time.

define "on time"

Based on past track records of the Voodoo3 and VSA-100, Rampage would have hit the market about 30 weeks after the first PCB were off the line.

(longer in the case of the V3-3500 and V4-4500)

3dfx would have had to convince a lot of bankers to float them money, they were in very poor shape at the end. The other problem was the lawsuits going back and forth between 3dfx and Nvidia gobbling up cash flow.

yeah true that did kinda make a large drain orsay bottleneck for thier flow within the system.

yeah I relised that, even at that time of day I was waiting to buy a boxed Voodoo5 6000, really I was very prepared for it like all the rest of you's ;) The Voodoo5 6000 project was indeed a grave impact to 3dfx's timeline and moneyloss, 13 mounths buisy on it and still not ready for mass production.

we all know how long it took for the V5 and V4 to come into real mass production

not to mention the 6K
these delays were bad enough already

no need to guess how long the rampage would take to be officially released.

hence their fate today.

norries everyone, at least we keep 3dfx on the move, for us they will always exsist, they are the exile!

does anyone think if Nvidia should suffer the same fate,
will they ever have such a big following in the after years like 3dfx? hehe

I wonder..  ??? ::)

wrote on 31.07.05 at 17:03:10:

does anyone think if Nvidia should suffer the same fate, will they ever have such a big following in the after years like 3dfx? hehe

I would say no- Nvidia and ATI are just players in the PC graphics market.

3dfx *created* the PC graphics market. *

*as in first priced reasonable and fast.

wrote on 31.07.05 at 20:56:48:

There may be some young kids now getting their first taste of the powerful 3D graphics of a PC's graphics accelerator, compared to their XBOX or PS2, and that change will stay with them.

As someone who has a small child I don't agree- Kids now are "pelted" with 3D graphics everyday (My daughter plays Dora the Explorer which is a 3D game)

Unless there is a quantum leap in graphics quality, like when 3dfx introduced Voodoo Graphics to the world most people won't notice IMHO.

Otherwise it is just increments of improvement, the "wow" factor just isn't there like in 1996.

I remember the first game I saw running on Voodoo Graphics, most kids can't say that about titles that are out now. Most are forgettable and the graphics all look the same.

wrote on 31.07.05 at 22:29:20:

Well the only way to tell is from the people's opinions themselves.

Be easy enough to ask some of the younger members on the board as to what they think and get a fair idea.

The point I'm trying to make might be easier to see this way- I watched games go from monochrome display (apple, escape from wolfinstien) to 2D/256 color (Doom, Dark Forces) to 3D software/256 color (Quake) to accelerated 3D hardware/16 bit (GLQuake)

Ever since GLQuake all we has seen are refinements of the same thing, not a jump to the next level.

IMHO.

What will be the product that takes gaming to the next level? 3dfx was the first to provide hardware to do it for the average consumer back in 1995/1996.

wrote on 31.07.05 at 20:30:46:

I would say no- Nvidia and ATI are just players in the PC graphics market. 3dfx *created* the PC graphics market. * *as in first priced reasonable and fast.

well actuall ATi was the first with PC graphics, they go way further back since 1985.

About ATI

"Founded in 1985, ATI Technologies Inc. is a world leader in the supply of graphics, video and multimedia products for desktop, workstation and notebook PCs, digital televisions, cell phones and game consoles. A pioneer, innovator and market leader in the graphics industry, ATI is built upon the strength of its people, products and technology excellence, its customer focus, and its ability to identify and capitalize on key inflection points where new technologies and markets converge. "

3dfx came a good 8 years later, somewhere in mid 1993.

So and Ati was also the first with 3D Video cards, They used to use OpenGL for 3D rendering.

1985

August

   * ATI Technologies Inc. is established
     August 20, 1985

October

   * ATI uses ASIC technology to develop its first graphic controller and introduce its first graphics board product

1987

July

   * ATI releases EGA Wonder™ and VGA Wonder™, a single card that worked with every graphics interface, software and monitor on the market, providing faster graphics than was possible on conventional personal computers

1989

April

   * ATI assists in establishment of VESA standard in the graphics industry


1991

May

   * ATI releases ATI Mach8™ in both chip and board products, capable of processing graphics independently of the central processing unit (CPU)

1992

April

   * ATI releases Mach32™, an integrated graphics controller and graphics accelerator in one chip
   * ATI releases VLB (VESA Local Bus) products and, after that, PCI (peripheral component interconnect) bus products

May

   * ATI establishes ATI GmbH in Munich, Germany

1993

November

   * ATI becomes a public company, trading on the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSE), trading symbol: ATY
     November 30, 1993

1994

August

   * ATI introduces the Mach64 chip and a new set of graphics boards -- the first graphics boards to accelerate motion video

November

   * ATI localizes application software in 13 different international languages

1995

June

   * ATI becomes the first graphics company to ship Mac-compatible graphics boards, proving ATI is committed to both PC and Mac platforms

August

   * ATI announces an agreement with United Microelectronics Corporation (UMC) and other joint ventures to build a semiconductor manufacturing facility in Taiwan

     
1996

January

   * ATI releases the first 3D chip in the graphics industry. Sales that year exceed one million chips

July and there is the proof of the worlds first ever made and released 3D chip. the Mack64.

3dfx was maybe one of the first with a 3D Accelerated API know as Glide, but OpenGL is lot's older much older, it's originated from Sillicon Graphics ;)

wrote on 31.07.05 at 23:10:37:

well actuall ATi was the first with PC graphics, they go way further back since 1985.

My post-

3dfx *created* the PC graphics market. *

*as in first priced reasonable and fast.

3dfx revolutionized the PC graphics market, ATI did not.

ATi did with the Rade Fury MAXX though, but indeed that was some where later on, ATi did manage longer, but I'm not sure if they will last that long, the way they are go'n now, with the long delays of the R520 chip.

the Radeon 8500 aka R200 was ATi first big chip that really made it's clearence.

3Dfx was indeed more succesfull with thier SST-2 project aka Voodoo2.

gdonovan is right, I'm 37 years old and have been playing pc games since I was 18 or so and the first time I saw the newly released diamond monster running on a friends system, I nearly sh*t myself with joy.  I could'nt believe that games could look like that on a pc, I went the next day and bought one for $399 Canadian.


That card and the release of tomb raider and glquake are the roots of todays modern pc gaming  ;)

If your younger and dont have the experience of before and after voodoo cards on a pc you probably just end up take it for granted ::)

A video card would immediatly have to take gaming to a photo-realism experience to duplicate what the introduction of the original voodoo did back then, not some   incremental transition taking another 5-10 years, current gaming is still closer to cartoonish than looking life-like.

@Obi-Wan_Kenobi,

The Rage Fury MAXX is not such a great card, a voodoo3 gives a better gaming experience, the first really good ati card was the 8500 and even then it was hampered by having early bad drivers ;)

wrote on 01.08.05 at 03:37:03:

If your younger and dont have the experience of before and after voodoo cards on a pc you probably just end up take it for granted ::)

Perhaps playing Quake on a P-133 for a few months with a 2 meg Trident board at 320 x 240 would give some of the newbies persepective  ;D

LOL! My first gaming machine wasn't to far from that.

Dell XPS P-133 with a 2 MB VRAM Number9 card with a S-3 chipset. I added a 4 MB Diamond Monster Voodoo 1 card to it. I was in game heaven ;D

This machine also had a SB AWE 32 from Dell :o

I bought this machine brand new 10 years ago, The Voodoo upgrade was a year later in 1996.

Or spending $200 on upgrading windows 3.1 from 4 to 8 megs of system ram just to have it run half decent, and then realize that gaming in dos was far superior to begin with  8)

ah ha.. DOS gaming,
i miss those days

we don't talk about spyware then =)

can't help but agree with gary,
even during comdex

3dfx outshines the need for gamers enthusiasm
where else, NVidia and ATI are just pure into Business to generate as much profit possible

thats how they started lying on benchmarks.. until Futuremark had to come out with patches to counter that.

wrote on 01.08.05 at 06:57:51:

ah ha.. DOS gaming, i miss those days we don't talk about spyware then =) can't help but agree with gary, even during comdex 3dfx outshines the need for gamers enthusiasm where else, NVidia and ATI are just pure into Business to generate as much profit possible thats how they started lying on benchmarks.. until Futuremark had to come out with patches to counter that.

though ATi has more experience, they started back in '85 and they are still here now.

The Matrox G400 MAXX was the best card of it's time, here in The Netherlands for sure, they were so expensive which was the main problem for me then :) that card had EMBM aka EnviroMental Bump Mapping, that looked beautifull in 32 Bit D3D and OpenGL.

3dfx came with the Voodoo3 3500 AGP TV just alittle later, I chose the 3dfx because it was alot cheaper, but still had a great perfromance. the 3500 now is still one of my favourite Voodoo's, it actually has everything onboard.

I wonder if 3dfx planned a Spectre 3500 TV AGP hehe would of been cool and I still even wonder how 3dfx cards would look like in the PCI-Express world, imande 2 quad chip based 3dfx cards in SLi :-X that would of shoked the world...totally, :o :o :o

wrote on 01.08.05 at 11:57:52:

He was stating what vendor created the graphics market. And he's right.  :P

Actually he isn't- The first IBM CGA color adapter came out in 1981 (Motorola based) Hercules raised the bar in 1982 (also Motorola based) and in 1987 the first VGA adapters were introduced by IBM (VLSI).

I suspect ATI was one of the first clone market board makers which were unleashed in the 1987 period when VGA was introduced.

Reseach does show there was quite a bit of gaming going on with the Hercules boards though!

wrote on 01.08.05 at 11:44:12:

A fair survey would be to go out and also ask the masses at Rage3D.com and nVIDIA forums also.  I'll be sure to say you will get a result you won't expect.

I check out a number of boards all the time- There is a great deal of people who really don't care if they run ATI or Nvidia. They buy based on price/performance or features.

The number of "fan boys" is fairly small.


Quote:

3dfx revolutionised the PC graphics market, ATI created it. ;D

See post above- Hercules had the greatest impact on the PC market becoming the new PC video standard in 1982.

We are starting to get real off topic though  ;D

Ati's early success/strength was in supplying oem's with 2d technology, it allowed ati to survive until the introduction of the radeon in 2000 as any previous models 3d technology was underwhelming at best and paled in comparison to what 3dfx and nvidia had ;)

In fact it was ati's acquisition of ArtX and the naming of Bob Orton as ati's CEO that turned ati into a real competitor in the 3d pc marketplace :

http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20030421S0028


I have a ati collection of 21 cards and have tested them all, so I can speak with knowledge about how poor the cards performed before the introduction of the first radeon, even with the release of the Radeon models ati could'nt back up the hardware with good drivers and this hurt them for a long time as well.

So no I do not believe that ati nor nvidia created the groundswell of enthusiasm for 3d technology in pc gaming, that role in 3d graphics history has to undoubtably go to its rightfull owner which is 3Dfx  ;)

Long live the king - [glb] 3dfx [/glb]  ;D

well I personally never had problems with ATi, the MAXX performs very well I must say, i think's it's morely how you config your PC, because an unstable PC is always the blame for stabillity problems, ATi is still alive , like 3dfx should of been if they didn't go on by thier selves, Ati kept the oem market vendors, even the retail brands like, Diamond Multimedia, Hercules, Power colour and so on. 3dfx should of stayed with the retail and oem market that would of been a wiser step.

I do agree that the Voodoo Graphics was an impact to the people when it was released, NV's Riva 128 was that also, it is older also, it used OpenGL and it looked very good.

chill down evryone we all are go'n too much off topic as we all as I am. :-/ , maybe a Topic rename would be a better thing or a lock, either one. This Topic is going nowhere like this.

On-Topic from now on.

The Rampage, okay didn't it used to be called VSA-200 or is that a myth? I did recall this many times in my memories, I would really wonder how a Spectre 2000 and 3000 would of performed, was there also a Spectre 4000 in the planning?

wrote on 01.08.05 at 17:30:16:

Well when I say "graphics market" as you have done, I mean a mainstream graphics are actually bought through regular custom.

As the Hercules boards were.



Quote:

What boards have you been looking at? Clearly not true ATI and nVIDIA fan-based boards.

If you go to a ATI or Nvidia board of course the numbers will be skewed, might as well go to a 3dfx board and ask what the favorite there is.

Try a more general (but very large) like over at Hard OCP or Anand Tech, sure there are fanboys there but if you follow the disscusions you will see there is a very large number of people who do not care who supplies the hardware as long as it works.

wrote on 01.08.05 at 18:12:14:

The Rampage, okay didn't it used to be called VSA-200 or is that a myth?

Might have been, Hank indicated that before marketing actually "named" anything the engineers would just past any nickname they came up with.

Look at the naming confusion with Daytona  ;D

Since Daytona was called VSA-101 it would be no surprise that Rampage might be referred to as VSA-200 being such a large jump in performance.

A single chip Rampage card was suppose to be called Specter 1000 but I have also seen internal notes indicating Rampage 2000 and Rampage Lite!

Wacky engineers.

Intresting thought of the day-

According to friends, when 3dfx made engineering samples they made batches of 10 to 20.

There are at least 2 and maybe 3 versions of Rampage made- A0, A1 and A2.

(The engineer indicate 10 A1 boards were made)

So that means it's possible that there was at a minimum 30 Rampage boards made  ;D

Quote:

So that means it's possible that there was at a minimum 30 Rampage boards made

It's hard enough to aquire a functional Voodoo5 6000. I won't bother to put this one on my short list. I think I'll stick with Quantum3D cards ;D

wrote on 01.08.05 at 21:19:25:

Hercules don't make their own chips.  ;) It would be pretty difficult to sell a graphics card without such a chip.   ;D  Even their first line of boards used chips imported from vendors such as Tseng Labs. So it may be Hercules' job to play the market, while ATI create it for them.  :)

Which doesn't change the story a jot- Hercules was still the first big name in graphics boards (which used Motorola chips)

Technically 3dfx didn't make most Voodoo Graphics and Voodoo II boards either! So the argument that Hercules didn't make their own chipsets is weak in the sense 3dfx didn't make boards either.


Quote:

Well it's not obvious what response you would get from a 3dfx board is it?  ::)

You did ask me what sort of response I would expect from an ATI or Nvidia board.

Fanboys, just like here.


Quote:

HardOCP and and AnandTech (let's also include Tom's Hardware while we're at it) are unbiased in any sense.

The forums on those sites are independent of the sites themselves. There is no shortage of people with opinions, including the site owners.

wrote on 01.08.05 at 19:14:27:

Intresting thought of the day- According to friends, when 3dfx made engineering samples they made batches of 10 to 20. There are at least 2 and maybe 3 versions of Rampage made- A0, A1 and A2. (The engineer indicate 10 A1 boards were made) So that means it's possible that there was at a minimum 30 Rampage boards made  ;D

30 cards omg that is very impressive, so there is A New Hope for you gary, norries about that hay :D, go get that Rampy Jedi Master, really a must have ;)!

hmm I wonder what were the changes and differences between the Rev.A0, Rev.A1 and Rev.A2 modelled Rampage cards... even this, there maybe more that one working Rampage afterall, sounds interesting, I really wonder where the other missing 27 cards are. 3 are known from now on though.

gary, does hank (or some other ex 3dfx employee) have assumtions where the cards might have been gone to? probably in nvidias hands? or destroyed? or even at quantum 3d?

wrote on 02.08.05 at 00:28:59:

3dfx design chips.  Hercules do not, and never have.

Which still doesn't change the fact that Hercules, not ATI ushered in major changes to the market.


Quote:

I never said 3dfx make voodoo1 or voodoo2 cards, who did?  ::)  This was not part of the discussion.

It's called "illustrating a point"

You contend that Hercules contribution wasn't important since they didn't make chips, on the other hand does that mean 3dfx wasn't important since they didn't sell boards till 1999 when they purchased STB?

So then by your own yardstick it's Motorola that initally revolutionised the market since they provided the graphics chips to Hercules... years before ATI was even a company.

So by your own logic, Motorola not ATI was first?


Quote:

"3dfx revolutionized the graphics market."  Your words, put into the context that their chips revolutionised the market ... because of the chips they provided.

Correct, 3dfx did indeed revolutionize the market in regards to graphics, 3D graphics to be precise.


Quote:

Ati created the graphics market .. because of the chips they provided.  Hercules produced such cards using the vendors technology.

Hercules was selling cards before ATI was even a company.

Hercules became the gold standard of video cards at the time and still had a reputation as a giant in the industry right up till the late 90's.

ATI didn't do anything of import till the 8500 was released. Before that they had poor cards and worse drivers and only stayed in business by selling cheap cards to OEM's.


Quote:

So this confirms that nVIDIA and ATI do and will have their loyal fans then?  ;)  The point I was trying to make.  ;D

You suggested going to a fanboy site and looking for fanboys, which I'll find no shortage of. I suggested going to a site with far less bias and see what the attitude of a larger number of PC hardware enthusiasts is.

Big difference.

Fanboys make up a tiny number of the market, if they had a larger impact I'd wager 3dfx would still be around since it can be argued that 3dfx had some of the most vocal fans.

Wasn't enough to save them was it?


Quote:

I don't see the point you are trying to make here.   Initially, you state that such forums have 'a very large number of people who do not care who supplies the hardware as long as it works' and then there is 'no shortage of people with opinions, including the site owners'. Which is it to be?  ;D

You indicated the forums would be not biased since those sites review hardware, if you had taken the time to at least look through the forums contents you would see this isn't the case AT ALL.

The forums are public areas and open to any posting in regards to hardware, good or bad.

If you spent any time at all page through the HardOCP site you would note that the editor of this very well known and successful site is very baised about some products and makes no bones about it and why when the subjects come up.

This has been quite a "blast from the past". Sometimes I get a little bit upset when my thread and it gets off topic (not my thread) but I have to tell you... This has been an education.

It's kind of like a boxing match. The bell rings and we're off-topic. Then the bell rings again, netural corners, and we're back on-topic. Then the bell rings again.

LOL! Hey it's all in fun right :-/

Back on-topic, I think TM30 had a question for someone up above.

wrote on 01.08.05 at 23:54:30:

gary, does hank (or some other ex 3dfx employee) have assumtions where the cards might have been gone to? probably in nvidias hands? or destroyed? or even at quantum 3d?

I have not asked and he tends to deflect some questions. Most are in the hands of people who worked on the project or were left at 3dfx and destroyed.

I do know the locations of four boards for sure, maybe five.

wrote on 02.08.05 at 15:06:05:

So it's "ushered" now is it? ;D Not "revolutionized" or "created".  Your play on words makes it difficult to establish what you thought it was exactly, that Hercules did? ::) I thought we were talking about who "created" the market, then you shift the topic to who "revolutionized" it, and now who "ushered the changes". Again, you are putting words into the mouths of others. ;)  Who ever said Hercules' contribution was not important?  I simply corrected your mistake on your assumption that Hercules created the graphics market ... when they in fact didn't.

Who is playing word games?

Stick to the point or don't post.

You are the one playing games, not I.

The question was- Will there be a fan base for ATI or Nvidia if one goes under like there is now for 3dfx.

Since 3dfx not ATI or Nvidia revolutionized the *3D graphics market* (have to spell it out for some people) I doubt it.

All one has to do is visit a hardware board with no real bias in either direction and you will see most hardware graphics discussion is based on price/performance/features as opposed to raving fanboys.

(as an aside, people still talk fondly about their first Voodoo graphics or Voodoo II board even though they moved on long ago, no one talks about their first ATI board)

@janskjaer - keep it cool mate, rember that Gary is easy to wind up, he's an admin with a short temper! ::)

@gary - remember that janskjaer likes to wind people up! ::)

LOL! ;D

hold it there, Iknow heaps of people that talk about thier first ATi Gary, there are more ATi fanatics than 3dfx fans that is allready been proven.

I remember my first ATi card the RAdeon9700 pro, my neighbour had an 8 meg Mach64 from Ati great card he told me. I think there should be no competion what so ever, there are people that remember thier first Matrox and S3 my first VGA was a Trident 64 2MB Edo ram based card, I had great fun with that thing, played lots of Descent 1 with that and WolfenStein3D.

Life is not always about 1 thing I have learned that many times, Trident, Number Nine, Ati, nVidia, S3, Matrox, Cirus Logic, SGi Cobalt Graphics, Bit Boys haha they didn't get far did they but I still remember them, and ofcourse 3dfx.

therefore 3dfx wasn't the only one, thereare much older brands than 3dfx which were much more common, for a 1976 bloke like me an ATi card is more well known and common than a 3dfx card, because ATi is much older.

Anyway it's not that I care about it I will always be a 3dfx  & ATi fan, that won't stop me from go'n somewhere else.

I don't wan't to upset anyone this is what I hear from lot's of people in the European Union.

wrote on 02.08.05 at 15:42:39:

All one has to do is visit a fan-based board to see that die-hard ATI or nVIDIA fans do exist (although some would prefer to not belive this ;))

Again the point goes over your head- Did ATI revolutionize the 3D market like 3dfx?

No.

3dfx bringing Voodoo Graphics to the public was a pivotal event in personal computers that has since been unmatched in importance since.


This is why 3dfx still has such a large following IMHO and people who moved on still talk fondly about it too.

Everyone remembers the first time they installed a Voodoo Graphics or Voodoo II and fired up GLQuake, or Tomb Raider or Descent II, etc.


Quote:

Whether ATI or nVIDIA fans will continue to exist if ATI or nVIDIA were to be defunct, is not certain.

I'm certain there would be a number of them but do you see them reaching current 3dfx levels? I can't see anyone waxing fondly for the good old days of their Rage IIc boards.

Consider that fact that 5 *years* after 3dfx has gone under there is still a strong number of 3dfx owners.

Heck whe have people that are still making good drivers!


Quote:

I find it impossible to believe that someone would spend so much money on a card, only to drop it as soon as the company goes bust.

Ebay is full of examples.


Quote:

After all, we get such support in the form of AmigaMerlin and MesaFX etc... why should ATI or nVIDIA be any different?  ;)

Because they didn't revolutionize the PC market like 3dfx. ;D

Most people would simply move to another graphics card as soon as the next batch comes out or wait till the current card doesn't do what they need it to do.

You are playing games again, keep it up.

ATI created nothing of note till the 8500- The IBM PC market had been in full swing long before ATI made a single board.

Quote:

ATI created nothing on note till the 8500

I have to agree, even the release of the 8500 was tarnished by its initial bad drivers (hardware features not even functioning at the driver level), most people probably dont want to spend big money on a video card and then have to wait for months and months while drivers are being sorted out by the manufacturer  :-/

It was'nt until the release of the 9500 that ati truly had their sh*t together and became the unquestionable leader in performance, by then they had the drivers to back up that release.

Ati is still relatively new to being a 3d technology leader and have had a very hard time shaking off the stereotypical ati = bad drivers syndrom.

I really do hope they can keep it up !

And as for the Rage Fury Maxx being a great card ... Rubbish:

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-111-4.htm

yeah my first ATI card was a 8500, i got it after it came out a couple of months and the drivers were the greatest bull$hit...

wrote on 02.08.05 at 20:18:24:

Yet you show no evidence of IBM's 'full swing' at the market to prove this.

You are kidding right?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=number+of+IBM+computers+sold+in+1982

Need to brush up on history.


Quote:

Other ATI fans with a long history of ATI card ownership would disagree with you.

Take it to an ATI board then.

People here disagree with you- Personally I'm running Win200Pro with a 9800 because the Win98 / ME drivers are c_r_a_p and cause a blue screen of death when you click on the "display properties"

Way to go ATI.

I'm also an avid ati fan  ;), but I dont let that influence my knowing that all 3d capabilities on models before 2000/2001 were IMO poor at best, although ati has always had pretty good 2D  ;D

My 9800 is fine under Win2000Pro (like I have choice- ATI, Nvidia or XGI right? Hold your nose and pick a card...), but pretending there was no PC graphics market before ATI is a bit rediculous.

Hardcore ATI fanboy rediculous.

something i have to say about ATI: i never used some arcade systems like Amiga or Commodore or console when i was young (i'm still young but that's another story). i started using computers when CGA Graphics comes up (!) this was the absolutely highend solution at this time. after that it never was important which kind or brand of graphic card you have. later it was only important that you have the newer EGA, then VGA adapters. First time i remember the graphic card became a important part of the computer was at the beginning of the SVGA era together with Simcity 2000. but then no one looked for the brand or chipset, only the svga feature was important.
after that i cannot remember that a product before the voodoo graphics became a milestone in the history of graphics cards...okey the s3 virge was the first "3d chip"...sry the chip was crap... then came the ATI Rage Pro with some games that used some features from this chip... it was nice but this was not really 3D like 3dfx...

about the ATI drivers: when the 8500 came out, it was a card for freaks... the drivers were real crap, you must patch most of the games, like you have to do with the Kyro chips... and sry i had a long long time problems with the ATI Drivers, cause they never keep settings for my dual monitor system when i updated the drivers, this problem is fixed since the catalyst 5.6 (!!!!)

wrote on 02.08.05 at 20:51:01:

Oh well done Gary!  ;D He knows how to type in a generic Google search.  That will bring back valid proof.

What are you stupid?

>plonk<

I have zero patience for people who like to argue for the sake of arguing and state black is white and white is black.

You were told to take it to an ATI board, don't let the door hit you on the backside on the way out if you can't be reasonable.

but you are here in a place for 3dfx where some peoples thinkin different ;)

i also cannot understand what's so fantastic in ATI ? there was nothing they've do which could be interesting enough to be a "real fan" of them  ???

everyone has thier own opinion and they must do what is best ofcourse...

The ATi 9700 Pro really changed the world in 3D graphics like the Voodoo Graphics did back in '96.

I have always had ATi since I had the 9700 Pro, never wanted anything else, like NV has used cheats with thier drivers, ATi PWNzz all, and especially with the Best overall Image Quallity in the world. 2D nears that of Matrox and 3D there is no better clearence that that of ATi, I have the AUS ATi Radeon X800XT Platinum Edition and man it's alot better than the GeForce 6800GT in D3D games with Shader Model 2.0, but in OpenGL the GeForce has the upper hand.

every card has it's own speciallity, ATi = Best in D3D, nVidia Best in OpenGL & T&L, S3 best in Texture Compression aka S3TC, segment, Matrox best in Multi monitor support and best in 2D. Matrox always had av ey good name even the Matrox Millenium G100 was the best 2D card in the world.


but 3Dfx did make it's day back in '96 agree with that, but to me it was wierd and stup[id stuff, You had to buy a 3Dfx card to play a certain type of game, OpenGL wasn't compatible, so it wasn't that kind for the owners that didn't have the cash to buy one, because they wouldn't be able to play a certain amount of games, so it was still a pain when 3Dfx came, I really started lik'n 3dfx with thier Voodoo3 3000 AGP why> well because you didn't need to put sepperate cards in a system, it had the Glide API, OpenGL and D3D in one, which was more pleasant for install and more user friendly.

Though SLi Voodoo2 was ver powerfull at it's time also.

Back on topic please.

Rampage.

Hi to all and sorry for my bad english, I'm an italian 3DFX fan and for as I know there are 2 Rampage in the world, perhaps three.

The only functional Rampage is in Italy, thanks to Amigamerlin and Hank, here are some links:

http://www.atris.it/Forum/showthread.php?t=33674

http://www.atris.it/Forum/showthread.php?t=33673

http://www.forumzone.it/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15998&FORUM_ID=40&CAT_ID=25&Topic_Title=Quando+gli+USA+si+fanno+pesanti%2E%2E%2E%2E+%3AD&Forum_Title=3dfx+Hardware+e+Software+%2D+Discussioni

For any question and translation please contact  ^SiRtA^ (Rampage owner), Amigamerlin and Hank Semenec.

Good reading. :)

wrote on 02.08.05 at 23:25:56:

Hi to all and sorry for my bad english, I'm an italian 3DFX fan and for as I know there are 2 Rampage in the world, perhaps three. The only functional Rampage is in Italy.

1) I know where there is four confirmed boards.

Confirmed means confirmed- No doubt, 4 boards, take it to the bank as we state here in the US.

I know where there might be a another board, I'm still working on that individual.

2) SiRtA sold his, it's no longer in Italy.

yeah SiRtA sold his indeed he told me this week :)

must of been worth a bl**dy fortune hay :)

that is something I really couldn't do it is soooo Rare, maybe rarer than my rares Sting CD "Nada Como El Sol."

anyways hehe I really do hope that there were 30 rampages and still hope that there is a Spectre 2000 the one with the Sage T&L chip really got a feeling that that also is drifting around.

We must remember that not all information would be spreaded out, there is still some secret info to be revealed but what that may be is ofcourse the question and problem.

Questions are to be answered and problems are to be solved, but it's the sollution how to do that ;)

May The Force Be With Our Quest here ;)

Om My God gary look at this !

http://www.atris.it/Forum/showthread.php?t=33673&page=1&pp=10

a very big and new topic of the Rampage card! it can do EnviroMental Bump Mapping :o :o :o :o :o

Click Thumbnails to enlarge!

3D Mark 2000's EMBM test:
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1056/envbmapping6yt.th.jpg

Half Life Direct3D rendering!:
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/9868/hlrampage0nt.th.jpg

well it's logic that the 5500 does not have EMBM, the Rampage does ;) Test it minimal of a Gf3, Matrox G400MAXX or a Rage Fury MAXX, they are the minimal supporting cards for EMBM ;)

The Ramapge was based on DirectX8 and had ShaderModel 1.0 support the Napalm there did not have this feature so EMBM isn't possible.

yeah sure does, the Rampage has good 3D in 3D mark looks very nice, in Quake3 it kicks butrix !

The shots look superb  8)

Man I wish 3dfx were still around and I had the latest card in my main rig  :'(

yeah you know that for sure, I got a 3dfx card in all of my rigs ;) just to remember them and to honor good ole 3dfx :)

K6-2 500Mhz @ 550Mhz
3dfx Voodoo3 3000 AGP + TV-Out 16MB SDR Rev.C 5199

Athlon XP 2700+
3dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP 64MB SDR Rev.A 2500

Dual OpteronDP 244 CG
ASUS ATi Radeon X800XT Platinum Edition AGP 256MB GDDR3 Rev.B 0514
3dfx Voodoo5 5500 PCI 64MB SDR Rev.A1 2900

if 3dfx were still here I would of done the same Voodoo5500 ;) The Rampage would of been a great step in the right direction for 3dfx, and NV and ATi would have had a great competition to go against.

that's a nice find Janskjaer :) never seen this pic before :) man I wish I were there though , wouldn't you :)

Those pics are from:
http://www.firingsquad.com/features/gdc2000/roundup/default.asp

and you can easily read caption of second picture ar firingsquad's: "Alex 'Sharky' Ross and 3dfx's Brian Burke".

hmm I get an invalid ID if I want to enlarge more pics , wierd stuff.

But that cardboard 3dfx logo that would be very cool to have, actually the whole board would be so cool! :P :o ::)

wrote on 03.08.05 at 12:11:04:

a very big and new topic of the Rampage card!

Not brand new. ;)
It's a 2003 topic, with a pic dated 2004 and few comments dated 2005, in the last pages.

@ Janskjaer,
yeah saw that one also, and behind that you can see part of the Voodoo3 3500 TV AGP as well :D

@ Superbox,

well this topic is rather new dude :)



wrote on 27.07.05 at 04:53:03:

3DFX Rampage « on: Jul 27th, 2005, 4:53am » Next Hardware http://www.nexthardware.com/news3.php?artID=588&numpag=1 They are supposed to have the only real version of the card, they have specs, some benchmarks done on teh card. They said the project is suspended, they need someone to optimize the drivers. Well if you are up to the task you might want to get ahold of one of admins and see from there. Seems like they are looking for someone to do this. ok so I msged in the forums at Next Hardware http://www.nexthardware.com/news3.php?artID=588&numpag=1 They are supposed to have the only real version of the card, they have specs, some benchmarks done on teh card. They said the project is suspended, they need someone to optimize the drivers. Well if you are up to the task you might want to get ahold of one of admins and see from there. Seems like they are looking for someone to do this.

Habbs started it after all, nice one Habbs ;)

Of course, mate! :)

But It seemed to me that your words were referring to the other topic, since you mentioned EMBM and linked the pix as well...


wrote on 03.08.05 at 12:11:04:

Om My God gary look at this ! http://www.atris.it/Forum/showthread.php?t=33673&page=1&pp=10 a very big and new topic of the Rampage card! it can do EnviroMental Bump Mapping :o :o :o :o :o Click Thumbnails to enlarge!

;)

oh yeah that one hehe, yeah that's old indeed, but I saw it for the first time hehe I looked at the date, and though like Mkay hehe, but still nice info in it :)