Aopen PA2000 voodoo2

`Aopen offers the PA2000 in three configurations, 8MB, 12MB and soon to be released 16MB. Although the 16MB version is not currently available'


http://www.coolinfo.com/techinfo/reviews/pa2000.htm


was it ever made ?

16 meg varriants were planned and were technically possible but they never were built, 4MB and 6MB versions of the Voodoo2 were only prototypes, the only ones ever built were the 8MB and 12MB configs and Quantum3D's 24MB sollution the Obsidian X24 :)

hmm this does not come across to the orginal Reso specs of the orginal Voodoo2.

Resolution, Colors, and Refresh Rate for Graphics
512 x 384 x 64K 120Hz
640 x 480 x 64K 120Hz
800 x 600 x 64K 120Hz
1024 x 768 x 64K 85Hz

--> 1280 x 1024 x 64K 85Hz is most unlikely impossible on a Sli set and 800 x 600 x 64K aka 16 Bit is max reso for a single card.

the Reso 1024 x 768 x 16 was only possible in a SLI config but if 1280 x 1024 x 16 was possible I doubt it, never had a Voodoo2 SLi set that could do that since that 1024 x 768 x16 was the max resofor a V2 SLI set :)


But Man that Game set my good Lord of The Force! this thing must have cost lot's of credits to keep in mind say 600 euro's maybe 700 hehe, never seen these babies in store though.

yeah its a nice set one for the collector !

must have been alot of disapointed gamers hanging out for the 16 meg card s

i checked their site they only ran standard 3dfx drivers not like wicked 3d they also brought out a banshee

hmmm Wicked3D 3.02 works with every 3dfx card afaiK :) even counting Voodoo Graphics, Voodoo Rush, Voodoo2 and Voodoo Banshee as well as Voodoo3 , 4 and 5. :)

But yeah looks like a Master piece to obtain as 3dfx collector :) 2 16Meg Voodoo2's would of been destructive, maybe 1600 x 1200 would of been possible with 2x 16MB Voodoo2's in SLi if they would ever be created.

metabyte v2 drivers single card 1024 x 768
not the mini gl

Well, being that they were in the process to come out with a 16 meg card, is there any way to solder on different memory modules and make it work or would that be a GPU limitation or something? Just wondering. There seems to be quit alot of V2's out there to play around with if one goes bad. I'm not that good with a solder gun, and wouldn't know which memory to use anyway but someone else might. Maybe get Hanks thoughts on if the cards would even handle it. They never came out with it so it could be that they were having problems with the GPU code handling that amount of memory but it's worth a shot to find out.

Bump. Kind of interested in this still. Anyone know of anything on this?

wrote on 10.04.06 at 13:32:56:

16 meg varriants were planned and were technically possible but they never were built,.....

16mb?

4mb frame/ z-buffer
2x 6mb Textures?

6MB is strange

wrote on 05.06.06 at 19:23:50:

16mb? 4mb frame/ z-buffer 2x 6mb Textures? 6MB is strange

I thought it was planned for

4mb frame/ z-buffer
3x 4mb Textures.

Well, as Gary has mentioned before, the V2's don't have a bios so just adding more ram wouldn't just do it would it? It'd have to be at the GPU level with memory addressing or would it? The V4 was able to go from 32 megs to 64 megs including a bios change but since the V2's don't have that, what would have been the limiting factor for not getting the 16 meg versions out to the public and can this be done? A 32 meg V2 SLI rig would be sweet.

I tinkered with adding 1 meg chips to a board, I think there are other changes that need to be made as it didn't work.

Didn't work meaning you got a dead card ? Or you got it working but still as a 12 mb card ?

wrote on 24.11.06 at 21:56:54:

Didn't work meaning you got a dead card ? Or you got it working but still as a 12 mb card ?

I think there are some resistors or other chips that ID the card, I got some wierd errors and texture problems.

Note- The max PFI ram is only 4 mb.

Yes. OK....But how much ram did that voodoo2 reported ?  ???

Can't recall, it wasn't the expected 8+8+4 though.

I wonder why, on your page : http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/trivia.htm
in voodoo2 section is this : 4) A single Voodoo 2 TMU supports 2, 4, 8 or 16 MB of ram.

Maybe some modules were bad ? Could you try again, I am looking for memory, but 40 pin EDO ram at 90+ MHZ and in modules bigger than 512kb is quite hard to find where I live.

wrote on 06.06.06 at 03:18:25:

I thought it was planned for 4mb frame/ z-buffer 3x 4mb Textures.

I thought this was the top for the V2 but I'm no authority on the V2

3 TMU on the V2 would be very nice, but would had no impact on games in those days, as games just started to use 2 texture layers back then. Anyway, I'm very curious to see what gdonovan has to say about his modded Voodoo2, maybe there's a chance that more than 4 mb can be adressed by V2 TMU.

Maximum memory:

Framebuffer: 8MB
TMU: 16MB (not 100% sure about this one though)

wrote on 25.11.06 at 00:00:56:

Note- The max PFI ram is only 4 mb.

Hmm,  8 in SLI maybe ? 16 MB maximum/TMU or for ALL TMUs ?

You might find Gary's "Primary Image" link interesting. I'll paste a snip to peak your interest...

Who would have ever amagine 8 X AA on a voodoo1 back in 1997..


Primary Image rolled out Piranha in October 1997. This was a PCI board that had the following on it: - an embedded Mips R5000 200MHz processor that ran an embedded version of Glide driven by the client side part of the Tempest scene manager, the server side ran on the PC. The client side did all the cull/draw calculations thus relieving the PC's CPU of this burden and allowing multiple cards to be placed in a single PC (see below) - a Voodoo 1 FBI with 3 TMU's (to my knowledge this and the Barracudas are the only 3Dfx implementations by anyone to have 3 TMU's). This allowed for a tri-linear filtered base texture and a dithered trilinear filtered secondary texture, or even three dithered tri-linear textures in a single pass. - A daughter card with another Voodoo 1 FBI with another 3 TMU's. This was used in SLI mode with the set on the base card. The cards had a pixel bus connector system that allowed 2, 4 or 8 of them to be joined together and composited into a single channel to generate 2x, 4x or 8x rotated grid anti-aliasing. There were also tiling options so that half the cards could generate the left side of the screen and the other half the right side thus doubling the pixel fill rate and increasing the maximum resolution to 1280x1024. A second connector system was used to daisy chain the Pixel Clock, VSync and HSync signals, thus allowing multiple channels to be video synchronized. Industrial PC's were used which had up to 20 PCI slots in a 19 inch 6U rack mount chassis. The PC was a single board computer (SBC) that plugged into the end slot. This system was developed almost 2 years before Quantum3D debuted their 3Dfx based AA offering.

gamma742, that's very interesting, thanks for the infos, but that doesnt help me in "my quest" : how much memory can one Voodoo2 TMU (or Voodoo1) have for use ?
And, second, what't the maximum framebuffer memory for a single V2 FBI processor ?

VII FBI = 4 max
VII TMU = 6 max

I'll double check these figures when I get home, the numbers are per unit.

3dfx docs indicate 2/4/8/16 MB

The doc's imply that is for a single TMU.

Exactly what you said here : http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/trivia.htm
Cool, then what could go wrong when you modded the card ? Could you try again ? maybe a module was bad.

Ah, one more thing. Can I have those 3dfx docs too ?
Thanks.

wrote on 05.01.07 at 00:11:41:

Exactly what you said here : http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/trivia.htm Cool, then what could go wrong when you modded the card ? Could you try again ? maybe a module was bad.

Something else board level might be required that I'm not aware of, if you want the board I'll see if I can dig it out.


Quote:

Ah, one more thing. Can I have those 3dfx docs too ?

http://www.falconfly.de/reference.htm

Yep You're right.

Bottom of page 8 and again on page 12...

That's as far as I got.

I wonder why no one put out such a card ???

maybe the because it would cost 3Dfx too much money, production wise.

But Primary Image or Quantum3D might have explored the possibilities.

yeap probably :) only all thier configs I have seen from Q3D collectors had max 12meg outfits. the Merc is actually a quadrant of 2x 12MB SLI sets. orsay 4 X24 cards in SLI, that idea, which would bring it to 8 12Meg V2 cards.

Never seen a Q3D V2 based card with 16 megs, the only V2 based card with 16Megs is the banshee, typically a castrated V2 chip in common.

As for Primary Image they had some other wacko idea's 3 TMU ships instead of 2 heh but the amout of ram per TMU was the same on that of a 12 Meg V2 afaik.

Hmm... Really!

I thought the Primary Image was a 16MB card.

4 MB TMU X 1 = 4
4 MB FBI X 3 = 12
Total Memory =16

I could be wrong :-/

What configuration do you think it has?

wrote on 05.01.07 at 01:13:21:

maybe the because it would cost 3Dfx too much money, production wise.

Maybe it simply determined not to be required.

A product with no market so to speak.

wrote on 05.01.07 at 02:00:47:

Hmm... Really! I thought the Primary Image was a 16MB card.

Nay, 64MB if I recall.

They were sold in 32, 64 and 128MB configurations.

Gary

Your PI card is a 64MB card ???

I thought it was a 32MB configured similar to a X-24 only set up as follows:

4 MB TMU X 1 = 4
4 MB FBI X 3 = 12
Total Memory =16

SLIed of course like a X-24 so the above times two equalling 32MB.

A Voodoo1 for PC with 4Mb for FBI and 4MB for TMU should be easy enough possible to mod from a regular 2Mb+2Mb card for someone who has one Village Tronic
Mac Magic 8MB to study the PCB traces (and to suply the bigger RAM chips if there is no other source) but there is no point for that work, right?

wrote on 05.01.07 at 00:57:11:

Something else board level might be required that I'm not aware of, if you want the board I'll see if I can dig it out.

I found no Bruce pinout over the internet; if anyone has the Databook for the Voodoo2 please share it. The problem is that higher density memory modules, in this case the 512x16 EDO, 1MB, rather than the orriginal 256x16 EDO 512Kb, have a supplementar adress pin (A9) that has to be connected to the TMU. Sure, it has to be linked with a resistor to the RAM controller, like the other A0 to A9 lines are, but the problem is if the Bruce chip has the right pin. I have a couple of deffective Voodoo2's to be fixed (one most probably only has a bad transistor to be changed, but other one I guess that it has faulty RAM chips so I do not think that I will try to get replacement memory for it). I see no other way that I un-solder one TMU to see if in each section reserved for memory adresses it has not connected pins that could be reserved for the A9 signaling. If would it be in each proper place only one NC pin, this would be the only possibility to connect it. As simply as that in the previous sittuation: if the NC pin is reserved for A9, then it will be possible to have 8Mb Ram for each TMU, if not, the mod will not work. I am sorry, but without the official pinout, reverse searching blindly is the only way that I see...
But because Gary allready has 1Mb memory modules soldered on a Voodoo2 PCB, and he is skilled in hot-air soldering with the heat-gun, the best way would be for the first one who will un-solder a Bruce chip out of a Voodoo2 PCB to send the results of his research to Gary (or maybe gdonovan will do all the job himself), so he will connect with external conductors each A9 adress from the RAM chips to the TMU.
That is, sure, if Bruces even have NC pins on RAM controller adresses zones. I have no time to study the issue soon; all that I say now are only based on a quick, fast, inspection with the multimeter, and might be pure nonsense, expcept for the hard fact that you have to connect the supplementar adress (with it's serial resistor), or else 1Mb memory modules will not work for a Voodoo2.

Unfortunately, not much activity over this topic as I see... Too bad...
I had no time yet over the weekend to have a look at my Voodoo2's, but is my personal oppinion that there is for sure a pin for the A9 line on the TMUs, because even Voodoo Graphics (Voodoo1) could have been produced with 1Mb RAM chips, as is the case with VillageTronic Mac Magic with 8Mb, and because Voodoo2 was a progress from it, then I see no reason for 3DFX to cut support for 512x16 memory modules with this product.
Just for my satisfaction, I would better work to make a 8Mb/TMU for a Voodoo2 than for a 64Mb/VSA100 mod.
There were a few years ago on the market some models of SiS 6326 graphics cards with 4MB and with 8Mb of EDO RAM, with 1Mb chips mounted, that would be good donnors for this project, and other brands might be out-there too. Sure, we will need 4 of the 4Mb verssion items or 2 of the 8Mb cards for every single Voodoo2 to be modded and they might be hard to get, unfortunately...

@Komponent

Sorry I think I killed the thread :-[





wrote on 05.01.07 at 15:06:31:

Gary Your PI card is a 64MB card ??? I thought it was a 32MB configured similar to a X-24 only set up as follows: 4 MB TMU X 1 = 4 4 MB FBI X 3 = 12 Total Memory =16 SLIed of course like a X-24 so the above times two equalling 32MB.

heres a comdex release on the v2
A bit of history and inline with what Gary said

http://www.wave-report.com/archives/1998/97340801.htm


Quote:

Maybe it simply determined not to be required. A product with no market so to speak.

`Voodoo 2 will not be a long term product '

3Dfx

Voodoo 2 came back from metal changes just before COMDEX. Announcements
by card companies with Voodoo products include: Creative, Diamond, Jazz,
and shown on the floor is Orchid. Of course there is Quantum 3D.

3Dfx sees this chip set and implementation being narrowly focused on the
avid gamer and vis-sim market. They expect no OEM wins other than to meet
this niche market. They expect to get the cards using this product to
market using retail, system integrators and companies focusing on BTO.

The ISV response has been very positive with 24 indicating they will do
something special to leverage the chip. It is also interesting that the
card companies are thinking about raising the bar and implementing 8MB
systems and not the minimum 6MB designs.One of the reasons is that this
would allow for 16 bit systems with double buffer and z on a 800 X 600
display. It is 3Dfx's view that the best target for the gaming experience
is 800 X 600 at 60f/s. They see little advantage to go to 1024 X 768.
Thus, with this as a target the game designer can focus on 15,000 to
30,000 triangles per frame to maintain the 60 f/s rate. At this rate they
can support two textures per triangle and alpha blending, filtering and
fog with no penalty. They see the point that 3Dfx is delivering raw
performance that no other company can. "You can't get it anywhere else."

3Dfx has again done a very effective job of delivering on the promise of
setting the bar in game performance. If you want raw power which game
developers have avidly supported 3Dfx is where the action continues to
be.

It is also interesting that Voodoo 2 is the Sega chip solution that got
displaced by NEC and PowerVR. What 3Dfx has done is to take its loss with
Sega and used it as a lever to raise the bar in the PC space. Although
Voodoo 2 will not be a long term product and it, in its most effective
implementation, is a multiple card solution, 3Dfx has reinforced the
brand name identity it has created. That is, come to us for the fastest
and most capable game 3D engine. Good marketing and execution in the face
of adversity. It may also be good financially if they win in the lawsuit
against Sega, NEC and VideoLogic.

Some interesting info on 3dfx

http://www.picosearch.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl?index=222314&calln=5&lastq=&sortsel=rel&psel=all&opt=ANY&doc0=0&query=3dfx

just 2 more this place has some great info

Quantum 3d simulators

http://www.wave-report.com/archives/1998/97350201.htm

Quantum 3d VSA-100 AAlchemy

http://www.wave-report.com/archives/2001/01030301.htm

sorry about the NVIDIA bit

To Komponent:

Some V2 12MB models are one-sided cards ... and they must have 1MB modules of RAM.
I can send (by mail) you scan of this cards if you interested in.

wrote on 24.05.07 at 02:47:30:

To Komponent: Some V2 12MB models are one-sided cards ... and they must have 1MB modules of RAM. I can send (by mail) you scan of this cards if you interested in.

Hey, sure thing; I would very much like to see those pics. Please take both front and back side images of such cards. My e-mail is Komponent "at" gmail.com But better upload the pics and share them to everyone.
Allthough you might have to check by yourself with a multimeter for the pins on the TMUs where the extra adress traces connect from the RAM chips, because there is little one can see at a visual inspection only...
The regular 12Mb Voodoo2's are built on the "piggy-back" way, that is half of the memory modules share the signal traces with the other half, but they are selected in use by dedicated RAS pins. If a Voodoo2 card has 12Mb out of 1Mb modules, then extra 1Mb modules can be soldered ontop of the first ones except for the RAS traces that will have to be connected with external wires to theyr pins on the TMUs.
But I suspect that the most important problem with modding Voodoo1/2 cards is that the configuration is set by hardware strappings, because those cards have no BIOS. It would be a hard job, because the refference technical specs are not available, as I know, so it must be done by trial and error way...

I'll have a look at my voodoo 2's as well this afternoon, I seem to recall one of them having only ram chips on 1 side, but still being 12MB.

If so, I'll post pics as well. any particular place on the pcb that needs a close up??

wrote on 24.05.07 at 11:30:17:

I'll have a look at my voodoo 2's as well this afternoon, I seem to recall one of them having only ram chips on 1 side, but still being 12MB. If so, I'll post pics as well. any particular place on the pcb that needs a close up??

Yes, please do check for that card if it realy is with 12Mb from 12 chips of RAM of 1Mb each. If this is for real, then take a couple of pics with the whole card and with a close-up of the memory modules. I am sorry, I did not know about those Voodoo2 models.

There's quite a few versions of Voodoo2 with memory only on one side, the other side doesn't even has the traces for other modules.

Most newer Voodoo2 are "single sided", i have 2 Powercolor with new logo chips and some others brands, but I didn't want to tear them apart just to try to mod other boards.

OK; I saw pics of a couple of Voodoo2 models with 1Mb RAM chips. Ofcourse, for someone that wants to try to do a mod for more memory with a Voodoo2, those cards are the way to start. But I think that it is not enough to solder other extra memory modules of 1Mb each one "piggy-back" style and to connect the RAS pin of every extra chip to the second RAS pin on the TMUs. There will still be the strapping resistors to be changed. Because the Voodoo2 cards have no BIOS, the configuration is done in hardware for the memory registers, so one need to update those settings, before the memory could be fully used.
Just to make my point here: I have not heard yet of Voodoo2 cards with 10Mb, allthough this value can be calculated for 2Mb FBI plus 2x 4Mb TMU. Just for fun, I modded a regular Voodoo2 12Mb from 4Mb to 2Mb for FBI; I only had to disconnect two resistors at the RAS traces so the FBI could now only "see" 2Mb. This part worked OK; see for yourself in the next image. By the way, this is no hoax, no edited sreenshot...

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6610/2mbfbi8mbtmueg4.jpg

2Mb for FBI, plus 2x 4Mb for the TMUs, equals an strange 10Mb Voodoo2. OK, the FBI can see only 2Mb, but... the card itself is configured by strapping resistors -not yet found by myself-  to 12Mb, with 4Mb for FBI and allthough the 3DFX Voodoo2 info tab show a correct new value, the device when initialized tries to access 4Mb for the FBI and it locks with artifacts onscreen when 3D acceleration is called by programs.
Now, I do not say that the mod for more memory cannot be done for the Voodoo2; no way am I stating anything like that. I for one, I am realy sure that it can be done and I hope for it arrive soon; but the main problem is the lack of technical info's, so the work has to be done by trial and error until the right strapping configuration is found. I might be wrong, but I think that this is alot about luck, intuition and hard work.

Quote:

...I have not heard yet of Voodoo2 cards with 10Mb...

Quantum3D Obsidian2 SB90-2440 :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Obsidian2-10-megs-of-ram-90-2440-PCI-Video-Card-Green_W0QQitemZ200097375303QQihZ010QQcategoryZ40157QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Thanks dudes; that Quantum3D Voodoo2 card is a very nice piece of hardware; I wish I had one myself...
This only show that the configuration that I wanted to try to get with a simple modding is possible, but this info does not help understand how to "play" with the strapping resistors to change the hardware registers.
But for a collector that allready has a number of cards of different models, like 12Mb single sided, 12Mb double sided, 8Mb, 10Mb and maybe even the rare 6Mb, it would be possible to study the items and to compare them to identify the strapping resistors and the variations of theyr configurations and so the settings for future memory amount values could be calculated, in theory....

I don't think comparing the 90-2440 with plane v2s is correct (to a basis of total memory) because the quantum's "extra" 2mb (compared with an 8mb v2) are probably for the 2d engine.