wrote on 19.07.05 at 17:51:00:

I will not have Hank Semenec and other ex-3dfx who kindly still provide increasingly slim information smeared.

There was not such deflammatory information as you clearly know there wasn't.
To prove this point, Hank Semenec was not even known of by me so this is impossible!

The REAL reason my post was deleted is that you did not like any criticism or response to your "final words". You also don't like free speech.

So after your failed attempt to ban me, here comes my original reply in it's original format, after all of your failed attempts to stop me...

Ooh, you locked the thread! That will stop me replying! ;)

You truly are sad and pathetic, in that you have to lock threads to have the final word, and that you cannot be criticised and ridiculed in my response!  :P

And by constantly removing this topic, you remove the power of free speech from forum users, showing your willingness to dictate your way on the forum.  Sad.


wrote on 18.07.05 at 11:03:00:

The cards that people at 3dfx said where never sold to the public correct? Just want to make sure were on the same subject.

Oh I think we are.  The one where you claim to have spoken to your imaginary friends at 3dfx, not being able to provide a shred of evidence that the cards do not exist.


Quote:

What makes you think I don't own one?

Well, you wouldn't be poorly attempting to prove me wrong that they exist would you? ;)
You'd only be proving me correct yet again! ;D


Quote:

Who said I spoke to one person? There is several I have broached the subject with, all state none were ever sold. Funny, now Scott Sellers vouches for you eh? What's next, Velocity 200 discussions over lunch with Gary Tarolli?

Sarcasm isn't your strong point is it Gary, but then again what is?
Me talking to Scott Sellers is as realistic as you talking to your "friends" at 3dfx to confirm the card doesn't exist.


Quote:

Perhaps you should brush up on current events my friend. I have 3 that were obtained from the engineer who designed most of the Voodoo 3 PCB's.

Since when have we been talking about prototypes!? !? You clearly aren't on the ball (or the topic) are you?  We're talking about the actual retail versions of the Velocity 200.
As I said, if you actually had one of the cards, you'd only be proving me correct yet again! ;D

janksjaer, u know he is a mod,
he can lock this thread again.

come on, there is no point in getting so heated up.

its just some infos that every individual have and different opinions.

I don't think its worth it at all.
so what if the box exist all not. Time will tell, and one day we'll find out if it really existed.

furthermore he already has the card, just not retail thats it.

i don't want to see you ban or anything buddy. take it easy

Janskaer, I've asked you to stay calm and put on those matters, but you didn't.

As I said to you earlier, go hunt that phantom and be sure to present it when you find it.

But until that day, this Retail card does not exist until proven otherwise.

If you can't let go from arguing without proof (it's your call to prove us wrong), I might have to reconsider what I personally wrote you in the last EMails because you're exactly giving the type of attitude that ticks people off, so quit it.

Technically, I actually begin to seriously doubt you know
a) what you're talking about and
b) whom you are talking to

Personally, I don't have a habit of locking or even deleting Threads, I'll give everyone a fair chance to make his point.

Yet, if it is nothing but vague speculation and it becomes clear that you don't even know the "who is who" around the top ex-3dfx people (and even claim them as "imaginary friends of someone")...
I'd say that's not convincing, rather the opposite and reflects extremely poor on your standing here.

@Edumundoab -  Exactly my point.  Everyone has their own individual opinion.  I am happy once everyone has their own opinion.  This is how it should always be.  If I get criticised about my opinion, then I should be fully allowed to criticise someone elses.  I want everyone to have their own look and opinion on matters.  I am happy to leave it at that.  Others are not.  Don't worry mate, I'm not even warm, never mind heated up.

@Falconfly - As we spoke about this discussion in my emails, I have simply re-posted my original reply.  As you can see for yourself this time, it was in no way deflammatory to anyone at 3dfx.   The whole point of re-posting my reply was to ensure free speech, and that no one should be silenced for having an opinion that is different to someone elses.

Can we please agree to disagree?  As I said, from what evidence I have collected, the card does exist until proven otherwise.

You can say that it neither inexists nor exists, as their is insufficient evidence to all parties in both terms.

How does that settle it?  ;)

Yes, we can safely agree to disagree here ;)

Evidence without proof (according to my standards) remains a "doesn't exist" until proven otherwise (by finding a single specimen).

That's how it works in Science and basically any other field as well, since it is impossible to prove that something does not exist, it only works in the opposite way.

I just find it odd that you don't believe Gary (or others) are in contact with ex-3dfx people.
While I never had any reason to contact them myself, they're still alive, have EMail and many still have a vivid memory of their time at 3dfx.

Could you believe I once was in contact with Mark Rein (vice president of Epic Megagames) concerning UT2003 and 3dfx support during the development phase ? ;)

Is he still at Epic?

Aren't they in cohoots with Digital Extremes?

As a software test engineer, the main rule of thumb comes from EW Dykstra in relation to software bugs:

"Testing can prove the presence of bugs, but not their absence."   - EW Dysktra

However, we can all agree that this doesn't mean there are no bugs in software.  The same rule can be applied here.  It is a negating fact.  ;)

The small amount of evidence collected (even if it was just 1 bug, or document in our case) to suggest the Velocity 200's do exist, outweighs the task that is impossible to prove they don't exist.

Hope it doesn't confuse.  ;) It's negating law.

Hm, that rule is flawed.

Of course it is possible to analyze Software for Bugs.
It's just a matter of time and effort to track every singe Command in Assembly level and debug every singe branch, step by step.

It's just not feasible in our times anymore (almost noone can truly code anymore, all burden is onto compilers, high-level languages and imported libraries, each of which contain bugs themselfes)
Still, that doesn't mean it's impossible to have 100.0% bug-free code ;)
If a code 10 lines long can be absent of any bugs, a code 10 Million lines long can be as well, simple rule of principle law (just not feasible in our commercial world, but that's no excuse nor proof of the opposite).

Arguing that "I have something that I call evidence and therefor believe it must exist" is like saying "I had a vision, my god exists, you go try to prove me wrong".
It's a believe but lacks any proof pending to be called fact, nothing more.

It just suggests that some people may have fallen to what is called "human error", whereas the most reliable and relevant 1st level sources existing on the matter however made clear and precise statements.

Regardless of whether code is 10 lines long or 10 million.  There can still be bugs.

We are drifitng now because we must determine what is a bug?

If a bug is defined as a technical or human error, then this is true, but there are other possiblities.

There will always be bugs and errors that we will not see until for example, circumstances change.

e.g.:

Developing a piece of software, may not have any technical or human errors, but ones that are non conformant with two different people.  A developer and a customer.

1.  Are we developing the product right?
2. Are we developing the right product?

It's not about tangible evidence such as mistakes in code, it's also what is done with it that counts.

In regards, "I have something that I call evidence and therefor believe it must exist" can be classed as a belief instead of evidence, I can agree.

However, in light of this discussion and the Velocity topic, it can be proved that no evidence has been provided then for either case.

WE simply have beliefs that something exists, and something doesn't.

Again, it all comes down to two sides of the story, where each side has its own beliefs.  No evidence then, as you put it.  ;)

i hope we are all cool after all the theories and facts.
lets not get on with this velocity 200 issue =)

Agreed, it's pointless.

Am I wrong or there are very little samples of this vlc200...
If anyone released it he wouldn't have done it for a so small quantity that even our hi-end collectors hardly get (don't get them at all, or get only prototypes or oem?) them while owning a vast variety of all kinds of extrarare prototypes

The only way someone made a box except for release would be for some presentation and in that case everyone would know of it.

I agree also FalconFly, it is indeed pointless  to waiste our minds on some piece of PCB, there are worse things to worry about.

Okay Gary has the Prototype boards, on which is very cool, and Janskjaer has seen the boxed ones, wel he believes that, okay if you believe that be happy about it , why go nagg'n around, it's not sensable, everyone has thier own beliefs, keep them for your selves no need to mumble around like wombats.

let's lock this topic and move on, anyway that would be my decision, just forget about it.

And you can blame me if you want, I was the fool of a took that started to even talk about it in the first place:
http://www.falconfly-central.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=general;action=display;num=1116941520

oh man what have I done, why did I even start that topic so long ago  :-[

[quote author=Obi-Wan_Kenobi link=1121850092/0#13 date=1121882901]I agree also FalconFly, it is indeed pointless  to waiste our minds on some piece of PCB, there are worse things to worry about.

Okay Gary has the Prototype boards, on which is very cool, and Janskjaer has seen the boxed ones, wel he believes that, okay if you believe that be happy about it , why go nagg'n around, it's not sensable, everyone has thier own beliefs, keep them for your selves no need to mumble around like wombats.

let's lock this topic and move on, anyway that would be my decision, just forget about it.

And you can blame me if you want, I was the fool of a took that started to even talk about it in the first place:
http://www.falconfly-central.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=general;action=display;num=1116941520

oh man what have I done, why did I even start that topic so long ago  :-[/quote]
Don't blame yourself mate ;)
You've started an interesting topic which contains some interesting things. It's not your fault that some people got angry or something similar (I'm not following exactly what's going on since I'm not interested in reading flames and that sort of stuff  ::))

wrote on 20.07.05 at 20:35:58:

Don't blame yourself mate ;) You've started an interesting topic which contains some interesting things. It's not your fault that some people got angry or something similar (I'm not following exactly what's going on since I'm not interested in reading flames and that sort of stuff  ::))

Thought we'd finished this already?  ;)

Quote:

pointless  to waiste our minds on some piece of PCB

Actually that was a piece of printed carton  :P

speaking about wasting my mind on pointless PCBs..

I've not only wasted my mind and time for it
but also half my working revenue on it.

no wonder why 95% of the world thinks im crazy  ::)

okay at least this one does exsist:

3dfx Velocity 100 AGP 8MB SGRAM boxed:
http://templates.kyozou.com/pictures/443000/442446.jpg

Nah! We've all got Vel 100's!  ::)

Pick this up on ebay for half the price!  ;)

http://img215.echo.cx/img215/4443/3dfxvelocity200agpbox1bf.jpg

;D ;D

haha, that one is a very nice job!

hmm nice Photoshop work Jan, or should I see this as a real one? hehe we'll keep this one in ;)

wrote on 20.07.05 at 19:07:22:

Am I wrong or there are very little samples of this vlc200... If anyone released it he wouldn't have done it for a so small quantity that even our hi-end collectors hardly get (don't get them at all, or get only prototypes or oem?) them while owning a vast variety of all kinds of extrarare prototypes The only way someone made a box except for release would be for some presentation and in that case everyone would know of it.

Don't interrupt someone's fantasy with pesky facts.

wrote on 21.07.05 at 15:39:51:

hmm nice Photoshop work Jan, or should I see this as a real one? hehe we'll keep this one in ;)

Not my work obi (although I'd like to say so) but that was Thandor's make, which pretty much hit the nail on the head, as to what it actually looks like.

It was just a bit of fun to see if I could get anyone scouting around frantically, looking for the eBay URL to go with the pic!  ;D  It's only an made up photo of the real thing.



wrote on 21.07.05 at 16:43:15:

Don't interrupt someone's fantasy with pesky facts.

Looks like this may all have to start over again thanks to someone.  ;)

Seems someone is still finding it hard to swallow that there exist two sides of the discussion, without either being disproven. Oh dear.  ;)

Just thinking matematic :P ... anyway I really hope that our good god will give us some samples someday, the more the better ;)

okok, enough is enough
no more sarcasm please Jan and Gary.
we are a big 3dfx family here.

yes I agree with Edmund, we never really had problems here and I think it's rather sad to see people argueing about some piece of PCB, there are worse things to worry about, let's just forget about it and move on.Period.